Comments on: Puppy Biting http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/178/canine-behavior/puppy-behavior/puppy-biting/ Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists Speak! Tue, 10 Apr 2012 18:29:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sarah http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/178/canine-behavior/puppy-behavior/puppy-biting/comment-page-1/#comment-1544 Sarah Tue, 01 Mar 2011 01:52:05 +0000 http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/?p=178#comment-1544 Hi Suzanne, Yes, the tiredness is one of the things that made so much sense to me about your article--we noticed it was always in the evening, and that just when we thought we were going to lose our minds from being "attacked" lol, the puppy would suddenly konk out. I haven't lost too much sleep about the muzzle clamping--we literally only tried it once or twice before we figured out it was just upsetting the dog and making her ramp up even more. Fortunately, we were soon in a puppy class that was based on learning theory and--although we had figured out on our own that the ignoring/"time out" technique worked best--it was our puppy class instructor who reinforced that and supported our abandonment of muzzle clamping. There's a lot of craziness out there, so you have to ask the right people if you want to be told anything sensible in the dog training world. Thanks again for what you and your colleagues do! Sarah Hi Suzanne,

Yes, the tiredness is one of the things that made so much sense to me about your article–we noticed it was always in the evening, and that just when we thought we were going to lose our minds from being “attacked” lol, the puppy would suddenly konk out. I haven’t lost too much sleep about the muzzle clamping–we literally only tried it once or twice before we figured out it was just upsetting the dog and making her ramp up even more. Fortunately, we were soon in a puppy class that was based on learning theory and–although we had figured out on our own that the ignoring/”time out” technique worked best–it was our puppy class instructor who reinforced that and supported our abandonment of muzzle clamping. There’s a lot of craziness out there, so you have to ask the right people if you want to be told anything sensible in the dog training world. Thanks again for what you and your colleagues do!

Sarah

]]> By: Suz and Dan http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/178/canine-behavior/puppy-behavior/puppy-biting/comment-page-1/#comment-1542 Suz and Dan Mon, 28 Feb 2011 21:02:12 +0000 http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/?p=178#comment-1542 Hi Sarah - thanks for your comment. I find the rationale of whoever gave you the hold her muzzle shut fascinating - your pup had to really FEEL it, but it wouldn't hurt. Clearly that's so contradictory - doesn't make sense as you quickly figured out. I'm wondering if your dog did it around bedtime because she was tired and somewhat like a tired kid just had little little ability to inhibit her behaviors. We all have done things we wish we hadn't with our dogs, in the early stages of acquiring knowledge as either a pet professional or pet parent or both. It's amazing how forgiving and resilent dogs usually are. Suzanne Hi Sarah – thanks for your comment. I find the rationale of whoever gave you the hold her muzzle shut fascinating – your pup had to really FEEL it, but it wouldn’t hurt. Clearly that’s so contradictory – doesn’t make sense as you quickly figured out. I’m wondering if your dog did it around bedtime because she was tired and somewhat like a tired kid just had little little ability to inhibit her behaviors.

We all have done things we wish we hadn’t with our dogs, in the early stages of acquiring knowledge as either a pet professional or pet parent or both. It’s amazing how forgiving and resilent dogs usually are.
Suzanne

]]> By: Sarah http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/178/canine-behavior/puppy-behavior/puppy-biting/comment-page-1/#comment-1540 Sarah Mon, 28 Feb 2011 06:22:06 +0000 http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/?p=178#comment-1540 I love this article. I find it so intuitive that this is a developmental phase, and I always wondered if the things we try to do to discourage it may be a drop in the bucket compared to simply allowing the dog and its frontal lobe to mature. We'd never know if that were the case, because the puppy may be outgrowing it just about the time we're expecting the consequences we've been using to "work." Our dog always did this around bedtime. We were suspicious of harsh and dominance-based approaches, but somehow we foolishly got persuaded to follow advice to clamp the muzzle shut("don't worry, it won't hurt her, but she has to really FEEL it"...I'm convinced it did hurt her). That only ramped her up more. We always found that the only strategy that helped at all was a "time out" by turning our backs/leaving the room, and fortunately, we listened to our instincts and experience, and our poor pup didn't have to suffer too many muzzle clampings. I love this article. I find it so intuitive that this is a developmental phase, and I always wondered if the things we try to do to discourage it may be a drop in the bucket compared to simply allowing the dog and its frontal lobe to mature. We’d never know if that were the case, because the puppy may be outgrowing it just about the time we’re expecting the consequences we’ve been using to “work.” Our dog always did this around bedtime. We were suspicious of harsh and dominance-based approaches, but somehow we foolishly got persuaded to follow advice to clamp the muzzle shut(“don’t worry, it won’t hurt her, but she has to really FEEL it”…I’m convinced it did hurt her). That only ramped her up more. We always found that the only strategy that helped at all was a “time out” by turning our backs/leaving the room, and fortunately, we listened to our instincts and experience, and our poor pup didn’t have to suffer too many muzzle clampings.

]]> By: Suz and Dan http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/178/canine-behavior/puppy-behavior/puppy-biting/comment-page-1/#comment-266 Suz and Dan Sat, 24 Apr 2010 00:18:51 +0000 http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/?p=178#comment-266 Dear Puppy Owner - We think you may have mis-understood our point in this article, or perhaps not read it carefully. When puppies "bite" during play - they are doing just that - playing. They are "trying on" or testing out different behaviors to see what works and what doesn't. During play, the LAST thing they want is for the play session to end. So that's why ending the game when the puppy bites too hard is effective - the technical name of this consequence is negative punishment. It's like taking the car keys away from a teenage who comes in past curfew. It's setting limits and following through with them without causing other problems. Play is not an "uncomfortable situation". Now if an adult dog is snapping or biting because he doesn't want to be touched or approached, then certainly "going away" is negatively reinforcing the behavior. That problem is a topic for another discussion. We don't mean to be unkind, but we just can't think of another response to your comment about yelping making the owner look weak other than to say that's just silly. That's a "pack leader", "alpha dog" kind of comment, and there are plenty of resources to help you learn more about the fallacies of this. In our experience, yelping startles most puppies, and when combined with ending the game, can be very effective at teaching puppy that biting too hard is not an effective strategy. We've never seen one puppy thump another on the nose to end a play bout! We don't believe in hitting puppies. If that's a method you choose to raise your dogs with then we'll just agree to disagree. If you want to learn more, you might check out our CDs and On Demand courses on <a href="http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/program-animal-learning.htm" rel="nofollow">"How Fido Learns Best", </a>as well as <a href="http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/program-canine-behavior.htm" rel="nofollow">"Shining the Light of Sciene on Canine Behavior"</a> Thanks for your comment. Suzanne and Dan Dear Puppy Owner – We think you may have mis-understood our point in this article, or perhaps not read it carefully. When puppies “bite” during play – they are doing just that – playing. They are “trying on” or testing out different behaviors to see what works and what doesn’t. During play, the LAST thing they want is for the play session to end. So that’s why ending the game when the puppy bites too hard is effective – the technical name of this consequence is negative punishment. It’s like taking the car keys away from a teenage who comes in past curfew. It’s setting limits and following through with them without causing other problems. Play is not an “uncomfortable situation”.

Now if an adult dog is snapping or biting because he doesn’t want to be touched or approached, then certainly “going away” is negatively reinforcing the behavior. That problem is a topic for another discussion.

We don’t mean to be unkind, but we just can’t think of another response to your comment about yelping making the owner look weak other than to say that’s just silly. That’s a “pack leader”, “alpha dog” kind of comment, and there are plenty of resources to help you learn more about the fallacies of this. In our experience, yelping startles most puppies, and when combined with ending the game, can be very effective at teaching puppy that biting too hard is not an effective strategy.

We’ve never seen one puppy thump another on the nose to end a play bout! We don’t believe in hitting puppies. If that’s a method you choose to raise your dogs with then we’ll just agree to disagree.

If you want to learn more, you might check out our CDs and On Demand courses on “How Fido Learns Best”, as well as “Shining the Light of Sciene on Canine Behavior”

Thanks for your comment.
Suzanne and Dan

]]> By: Puppy Owner http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/178/canine-behavior/puppy-behavior/puppy-biting/comment-page-1/#comment-253 Puppy Owner Mon, 19 Apr 2010 21:43:37 +0000 http://animalbehaviorassociates.com/blog/?p=178#comment-253 I have a good question.  You said the puppy must learn "biting makes you go away".  Isn't that the last thing we want to teach our puppies???  That they get a "reaction" out of it?   I don't want to teach a puppy that using its mouth and biting makes me go away, because then when they are older they may do the same thing.  Use their mouth to get out of uncomfortable situations by biting someone.  I don't belive in the yelping thing because it makes owners look WEAK to their dogs and teaches them they have a weapon to use that hurts us.  Yelping is the noise a squeeker toy makes for a dog to bite even harder on it! I raised my German Shepherd puppies and a Husky puppy not to bite human skin and they need discipline for it.  Not shoving something down their throat (why do you have to use the worst-case example) but pinching their scruff like another dog would and pulling them off, or giving them a thump on the nose.  Some puppies are not so bad with the biting and you can just use a toy to keep them off your hands and clothes.  Where is the discipline here? I have a good question.  You said the puppy must learn "biting makes you go away".  Isn't that the last thing we want to teach our puppies???  That they get a "reaction" out of it?   I don't want to teach a puppy that using its mouth and biting makes me go away, because then when they are older they may do the same thing.  Use their mouth to get out of uncomfortable situations by biting someone.  I don't belive in the yelping thing because it makes owners look WEAK to their dogs and teaches them they have a weapon to use that hurts us.  Yelping is the noise a squeeker toy makes for a dog to bite even harder on it!
I raised my German Shepherd puppies and a Husky puppy not to bite human skin and they need discipline for it.  Not shoving something down their throat (why do you have to use the worst-case example) but pinching their scruff like another dog would and pulling them off, or giving them a thump on the nose.  Some puppies are not so bad with the biting and you can just use a toy to keep them off your hands and clothes. 
Where is the discipline here?

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